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Post Info TOPIC: Aus-Thai Biz Seminar WA cancelled - Aus Visa office says we are imposters AGAIN!

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Aus-Thai Biz Seminar WA cancelled - Aus Visa office says we are imposters AGAIN!

The case relates to an application for Biz visa 456 (short stay) for our Thai National employee
 the applicant has skills sets and experience far greater than her fellow worker that has the same visa, same job and same employer?
 the applicant has already been to Perth W.A. twice this year where she conducted promotion of Aus export products 
The visa officers have used the most innocuous reasons for refusal knowing it is obstructing Australian Biz (export) and they refuse to converse/collaborate?

We prefer not to drag a negative issue into the Public Arena - it is the only way of drawing a response (same as the media)
Our evidence clearly shows we have made every effort to Collaborate - the dept refuse to converse?

Please note: we are not skilled stories writers - we simply quote  the facts - we prefer to get on with biz but the officers (our Public servants) will not collaborate to assist/support?  

The trail of notes below shows inarguable evidence the Visa officers ignore the foremost option, that they may INGORE the innocuous issues to support an application if the purpose of the visit is for the benefit of  Australia.  when we ask them this they decline to comment?   ("Slavish acquiescence")

Our investment syndicate pool of aud$2,500,000 is wanting to "do business with Thailand"

The applicant is employed by an Australian based and Australian Owned company that promotes export of Australia products and services
The officers have contradicted almost every procedure and/or gudiance by their senior officers
The officers refuse to justify their actions and refuse to converse

. We completed 3 meetings with Senior officers over 18 mths - they know our Biz - we ask for collaboration and they want to agree but  "Slavish acquiescence"
Senior officers confirm the protocol: "if in doubt give the applicant a chance to ratify" - all cases show they do not give the applicant a chance to ratify and when asked why they refuse to comment? 
3. Our Thai worker received a 456 visa in Jan 2010 - her skill sets and experience is only 20% of the current worker yet the current worker is refused? (innocuous issues)
The innocuous issues contradict the officers manual (ie give benefit for Australia) ie., the reasons are "not relevant" - the officers refuse to discuss.
4. We have a independent qualified assessment that contradicts the Senior officers assessment.

latest news:  2010-12-17

2010-12-15 we received a statement from UWA (University WA) that verifies contradictions of the officers
2010-12-16 We cancelled an Aus & Thai Seminar in Perth "doing Biz with Thailand with Guests from Aus & Thailand

The findings
The officers demonstrate the characteristics of "S
lavish acquiescence"
When questioned as to their interpretation of the guidelines they "refuse to converse", if forced to communicate they decline to justify their interpretation??
Legal case - "Slavish acquiescence"   -  if you hold a position of office - an wrongful act includes an omission (the act of not doing the obvious)
case example:  - Australian Law case:
The Judge requested the ATO officer to give his interpretation of the guidelines which he used to apply a decision.
The ATO officer read the guidelines, the  judge asked again - what is your interpretation and again the officer quoted the guidelines. The Judge stated the officer was "Slavish acquiescence "  incapable of standing an opinion and warned the officer to hold him in "contempt of court" if he did not answer the question "what is your interpretation and now how do you justify that opinion".   In other words the officer was asked to "be accountable". In the Corporate world holding a duty of office and failing to perform that duty is a "breach of duty", if they are a Senior officer the Corporate law means they are personally liable.
A wrongful act, error and omission does include the word "omission" which means the act of doing nothing.
We have reported the matter to Ministers with the obvious comment:-

If our client was experiencing a service from a “private enterprise” where there was “gross contradiction in terms” we would urge them to report the matter to the appropriate authority for investigation.



18/11/2010 - Auswathai team (Aus& Thai) attend co hosted Aus & Thai Govt, seminar Thailand.   Sensational !
                       the outcome is achievement through collaboration of Biz skills 
                         L.I.F.E. (Leadership, Integrity, Flexibility, Efficiency), without "flexibility" it's a L.I.E.

We agree to host a Seminar in Perth W.A.  -  Newsflash:  Seminar Perth WA "Doing Business with Thailand" - link 
26/11/2010 -  it took 28 days for the Visa office Bangkok to grant a Phone meeting to discuss visa issues
                      The "Minister - Counsellor" (Simon D) confirms he reviewed the file and applicant was "not clear" 
                           our Thai employee did not specify a "Travel date" and we did not make it clear she was only "visiting"
                       We asked why all Visa officers refused to answer all my calls and emails for collaboration (before the decision) 
                      The "Minister - Counsellor" apologised for the truant behaviour of staff and request not to show their names as they are concerned?
28/11/2010  - our 1st tour group of WA Biz Execs arrives to Bangkok (Arwee (visa applicant) is tour host, liaison officer, translator and P.A. team Manager) 
29/11/2010 - 12.04 we emailed The "Minister - Counsellor"
                      that after our phone meeting 26/11, I called his office, followed the switchboard voice options to speak to a counselor. 
                      We left a voice message on their switchboard and await a call.
                      that today our Thai employee resubmitted app with specific attention to the 2 innocuous points raised as "not clear".
                      (on the last app I contacted the officer multiple times to ensure everything was "clear" - they refused to respond ?
                      that today we host our 1st tour of WA Biz Execs in Bangkok, they include 
                      committee member of WA Turf club and Assistant professor Marketing UWA (University) Perth
                      that our Aus & Thai Seminar in Perth W.A. is immediate, we seek collaboration from his office to ensure a seamless process
                      that you confirmed the process is if in doubt give the applicant a chance to ratify.
29/11/2010 - 11.30am Arwee submit visa to visa office
29/11/2010   4.12pm phd Aus Visa office Bangkok and speak with a Visa counselor (Student not Biz category). 
                     Explained the urgent nature and sought collaboration. The officer was very helpful, gave specific instructions on how to inform the Biz Counselor/s.
                     (Biz Counselors are the same officers that refused to respond to all phone calls and emails last month).
29/11/2010   7.13pm email the 2 x Biz Counselors.
                      explained the urgent nature and sought collaboration. That we are following instruction from Counselor from 29/11 and Minister Counsellor 26/11, 
                      further after submitting visa app yesterday we have received more confirmation from Seminar attendees and invitations for meetings with visa applicant - they are available if required.
note the biz skills sets: Being Flexible and efficient versus making Negative assumptions

10/12/2010  2.00pm email from Thai Employee (applicant) - report about Visa    (note the time line)

Thai employee used (L.I.F.E. Skills), returned a call that was initiated by the Embassy.

10/12/2010 2.30pm email from Visa officer - Janine BuxSenior Migration Officer/Second Secretary (Immigration) - Visa refused
   extraction from their decline letter - decline point 1 (negative assumption)

There is no evidence the applicant "hung up" or nor unable to answer questions, it was circumstantial due to a bad line.
It is common knowledge that mobile phones lines in Thailand are not stable.

we subsequently asked the officer "given the benefit of doubt" (bad line) - she applicant does not not have your contact details, did you call
her back or leave a message on her phone.  It is "common knowledge" in Thailand to use "SMS" as the primary message system (voice message can be a problem due to Language)
The officer refused to answer the question: as she based her opinion on an assumption we mirror her culture which means...
"no I did not call again, No I did not send an SMS or email. I made negative assumption to justify my prejudice"

decline point 2

Our application states, among other things
1. The applicant attended the co hosted Aust., & thaiGovt Seminar 18/11 in Thailand, we are presenting the content in a Seminar in Perth
the information was supplied by Aust., and Thai., Govt.,
2. The applicant will be translating documents (documents can be hard or soft; websites)
3. Attendees include Aus Biz Exces, AustCham Thailand, Marketing dept of UWA (university), Travel agents (confirmation provided)
4. Confirmation provided from a Thai Biz that we are presenting their Services ( it's Thai and so is their website???)  (Arwee has been trained on their product).
5. A W.A. Biz client wants to buy a Thai owned and Thailand based Biz, - he inspected it last month and Arwee (the applicant) was his PA.
     he requires the applicant to visit for a meeting for translation and instructions for due diligence and liaise with Austrade and B.O.I. (Thai Govt).,

Further, our email 29/11/10 to the 2 x Biz Counselors states we have received more attendee confirmations, avail if required?

10/12/2010 3.21pm emailed Janine Bux.
                       I called the applicant re your assetion that she "ran away". Her mobile phhas background noise NOT easy to hear. I asked her what happened
                       Arwee confirmed the content of her email (timeline on her email is before the visa decision).
asked the Visa officer - the obvious "did you call the applicant back" (see answer above). and we completed a 956 form this requires you to 1st call me?
10/12/2010 5.07pm  email from Janine Bux
                      (the officer refused to answer the question , that is "No" I did not call her back nor leave a message?)
                      The 956 only requires us to give written communications.  (this is a contradiction of fact - see my email 10/12 5.32pm - below)  
                      You did not give evidence your seminar (Aus& Thai "doing business with Thailand") would view Thai websites?
10/12/2010 5.23pm  email to Janine Bux
                      our letter 28/11 clearly states the relevant points (see above), we were guided by the "Minister Counsellor" on critical points 26/11/10
1. we have completed 3 x meetings with Chief/Senior Migration officers from Bangkok over 18 mths.
They all confirm the biz practice is "if there is doubt give the applicant a chance to ratify
.  Is this your view ?  what evidence is there that you did this?

Your Decline letter states this visa category is not correct .. refer below

1. The Seminar material from Austrade Bangkok confirms 9,000 Thai were approved for this visa category
2. on 26/11/10 The Minister Counsellor Bangkok confirmed 99.50% of applicants are approved  - do you agree
3. on 09/12/2010 Thai staff from B.O.I. (Thai Govt) presented the same material as our Seminar in Tasmania - they have the same visa category

waiting for reply?

10/12/2010 5.32pm email Janine re the 956
                       last month your fellow officer rang me stating "it is the policy of your office to get consent from the 956 holder before interviewing the applicant".
                       Please confirm that she or you are incorrect?
                       Did you read my email 29/11/10: it clearly states we have more Seminar attendees & meeting request confirmations for Arwee. They are avail if required? 
                       As a Senior officer, was not able to envisage that a co-hosted Aus & Thai Govt Seminar "Making tafta work for you" and
                       our Seminar "Doing Business with Thailand" might contain some Thai Language

The applicant has already visited Perth twice this year?
She has written media in both Languages, including media work with Charity in Perth and Bangkok, hosted W.A. Biz Exec tours in Bangkok, has met and conversed with High ranking Aust Embassy officials in Bangkok?

We request your urgent reply to these answers to relay to the attendees of our seminar so they can envisage the REAL obstacles “Doing business with Thailand”. 

waiting for reply?
  Newsflash:  result for our 1st Tour Group "Aus Execs to Bangkok"  - link
We now must cancel the Seminar andnotify attendees "Doing Biz with Thailand" is obstructed by the Aus Visa office Bangkok - because did not have collaboration from a SENIOR visa officer ??
The Senior officer
thinks the translator can not translate based on circumstantial evidence of a interrupted phone call
thinks an Aus & Thai Seminar about "Doing Business in Thailand" would NOT involve Thai Language?
thinks that an AusBiz citizen buying a Thailand based and Thai owned Biz DOES NOT require translation or that his nominated Thai liaison officer is not suitable?

Referring to the significant finding of the Aus & Thai Govt collaborative seminar L.I.F.E. (leadership, Integrity, Flexibility, Efficiency), without Flexibility it's a L.I.E.
we wish to ask ..  what flexible efficient option is most obvious

has the SENIOR Visa officer demonstrated "Leadership" or "flexibility" or "efficiency"

We acknowledge the WARNING raised by the Visa office,  that you must have serious doubt "when people will not answer questions", we give them a chance and the imposters will run!
 Our experience
 2010-11-29 during the phone meeting with the "Minister - Counsellor" we asked why the officers refused the courtesy of a response - the answer was "sorry", no explanation"
                     the refusal extended the entire 14 days that I waiting in Bangkok for a meeting - the refused to answer all calls and emails?
                     the officers not all but include  ''   ''  Amanda Hudson
                     while these officers refused to communicate with me, an Aus Biz citizen and the 956 holder, Arwee met high ranking embassy officials at a social event -
                     they praised her work and recommended people to us?

 2010-11-26  after 28 days we were granted a ph meeting from the "Minister Counsellor" he terminated the call after 45 minutes as he "was busy"?
                      he confirmed the biz policy of their officer is essentially the same as before - "if in doubt we give them a chance"

 2010-05-00  We accepted a meeting date with a Senior Visa officer (Helen Sun) in Bangkok. We fly in, on arrival she aborted the meeting???

 2010-01-14  DAFTA liaison officer Canberra Louise Rihova - she agreed to address and urgent matter but ignored? 
                      we asked for the name of her superior officer, she refused to give the name and declared she will "hang up" and she did. 
                      We gave her a 2nd chance - we sent her an email to confirm the request and verify her actions - she refused to answer the email? - we reported her to the Minister. 
Can I assure you we do not "avoid questions" we are avail 24/7 if you leave a message will reply promptly.
A genuine business service does not hide behind websites or switchboards. Our direct phone numbers are displayed because we are transparent.

2010-12-13 10.44 - emailed Janine Bux - request her direct phone number - we (An Aust Biz) seek assistance for Aus import/exports
                           we have questions to ask her - they are glaring obvious errors and omissions  (we note the phone number in her email signature if not her office?)

waiting for reply from Jannine Bux - Senior Migration Officer/Second Secretary (Immigration)

2010-12-13 5.05  - Phoned Aus Embassy Bangkok.  Requested to speak to Jannine.
                           (The operator has minor language problems, we accept people from different countries). I repeated the answers speaking slower!  
                           The operator checked with Jannine, the answer is "she is not available". 
                           I left a message.   we also asked why does she show a phone in her email signatire that is not to her - respondent said "no comment"?

waiting for reply from Jannine Bux - Senior Migration Officer/Second Secretary (Immigration)
2010-12-14 emailed: Austrade Minister: The Hon Dr Craig Emerson MP

2010-12-15 emailed: all Seminar attendees that the Seminar is Cancelled - however private meetings will be provided where possible, but no translation service

2010-12-17 Aus & Thai function held in Perth. 
                 The Seminar was cancelled as the Thai team was refused a visit to join the Seminar.
                 The event was changed to a luncheon joined by biz people Bangkok and WA (no Thai)  - logically the Biz people at the meeting are disgusted by the truant culture (no response) from Senior Migration Officer/Second Secretary.
2010-12-21 we have now published the Independent report (University of WA) about the applicant's skill sets - it clearly shows the assessment officer (a Senior) has made gross errors in judgement.


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 141

Someone thinks that business people are stupid to choose a girl who can't speak English and have done stupid thing "hang up" just because of some reason???

Everyone have plans and limited times. If someone thinks it is just a work to follow on the game and finish it quickly. I don't think it's fair for other people who lose thier time and business!


ARWEE - Manigluck

Lucky Phill

Status: Offline
Posts: 146

Reasons for refusal 
1st refusal:   1. you did not make it clear of the travel date?    2. you did not make it clear that the visit is just a visit?
       We contacted the Visa officer several times before the decision to ensure their was no confusion - they refused to reply?

2nd refusal:  1. the applicant can not speak English?   2. you did not make it clear you were translating websites in Seminar about Thailand? 
        We contacted the visa office in writing stating we have more information to hand if required - no response?

in the last 2 months her biz visa has been refused by Visa officers that have not followed procedures, can not answer a phone call or an email 
The Chief Migration officer has apologised and unable to explain the behaviour of dept staff and requested we suppress their names

yet in-spite of this he believes that have followed made a appropriate decision in accessing the case?

The Visa office has a duty...   to shield the threat of Alien invasion", but the guidelines (not rules) clearly state they should use discretion where there is a benefit to Australia.
1. it is not that an Alien (Thai National) is trying to get into Australia
2. It is an Australian owned Australian Owned and Australian based business promoting Import/Export of Australian products 
       a. directing their Thailand employee to visit Australia to assist promoting Australian Import/Export products.
       b. asking every known Australian agency to collaborate to assist, they say "yes" and guide you down the channel until
           you mention the "visa office" and then it's "barleese"?

The Visa office Bangkok is misalignment with the objectives and highly offended when questioned?

case History - horrifc contradiction of fact
Our previous Thai worker - In 2009 her visa was rejected
   after many hours of challenge over innocuous issues we reapplied.      In early 2010 the 456 Multi entry visa was approved  - see below
   after one visit to W.A. the employee returned to Thailand, the project for that visit was not viable, she did not return, we did not abuse the visa "mutli entry". We got on with Business. 
   Below is a copy of that employee's 456 Multientry visa certificate.

Attached to this post is a copy of our supporting letter for this Visa application Jan 2010

In Jan 2010 we employed Arwee, believing her skill sets would suit certain projects (all projects are published on our website - we are Transparent). 

From Jan 2010, every month we visit Bangkok she performs the duty of 
     P.A.; Translates, Orientates, Cultural Concierge, in her daily duties she mets English speaking people (Biz and Tourists) no one reported any problem with her English? 
    when she is not working as my P.A. she multi-tasks for other duties:-  office Manager, translation, Media articles, tour design and promotion
    she is in constant contact with our Australian office gaining language and business skills.

   Arwee has developed a Best E Network site for Aus & Thai (biz and Social) - website
   Arwee has translated and published (in English) a Tourism Map of Bangkok for Family, Shopping, Nightlife - media published
   Arwee has hosted Biz Execs in Bangkok as P.A. (Personal assistant), Translator and Cultural Concierge  - Media published
   Arwee has hosted a Tour group of WA Biz execs (guys and girls) to Bangkok - Translator and Cultural Concierge - media published
   Arwee has hosted tour group of Australian Families x 3 to Bangkok  - media published - P.A., Translator, Orientation and Cultural Concierge.
   In May 2010 Arwee conversed with the Visa officer for her Student Visa but (in Nov 2010 the visa officer says she can not speak English?) 
   In June 2010 Arwee visited W.A.
       Arwee has written Media articles in English and Thai about her visit to W.A. (West Australia) and Thailand 
       Arwee has been involved in Media to promote Charity group in W.A. and Bangkok
       Arwee met the W.A. Thai Association president and members
   In Sept 2010 Arwee visited W.A. to as guest for W.A. Thai Association 30th Anniversary - she wrote a media article and returned to Thailand
   In Oct 2010  Arwee met High ranking Embassy officials in Bangkok - the conversed with her about the above achievements and praised her work
   In Nov 2010 see attended a co hosted Aus & Thai govt Seminar and met the officials 
   In Dec 2010 see hosted 1 Tour group of Aus Biz Execs (guys and Girls) to Bangkok, she Managed a team of Thai P.A.'s, translated, orientated - media published
      we have written testimonials about her performance - her English and Translation skills are 9 out of 10
After the 1st refusal  (2010-11) (reasons: you did not make it clear of the travel date?    2. you did not make it clear that the visit is just a visit?)
   we challenged the issue - that we contacted the visa officer many times before the decision to ensure they was not confusion - they refused to communicate?
    It then took 28 days to force the Visa officer to discuss the matter.

The Chief Migration officer apologised and among other things confirmed
     1. We applied for the wrong visa? 
              We confirmed 
               1. we visited the WA Visa office(while Arwee was in Perth in Sept) and they confirmed it was correct?  
               2. That it is the same visa as the previous Thai worker doing the same work for the same company

     2. The visa conditions changed in Sept 2009?    
             We cofirmed the previous worker's visa was Jan 2010 (after the changes)
     3. This visa category is only for Highly specialised people
             We confirm their office showed a slide in the 2010-11 Seminar that 9,000 such visa are or will be approved
              and in your own words you indicated that 99.50% of applicants are approved?
     4. The issue is not about Auswathai or our work but the assessment of the applicant
             We confirmed the applicant has more experience, more skills and more references from notable people?

     5. That if we re apply we need to be clear about the travel date and that the visit is only a visit - we agreed

We phone meeting was terminated by the Officer as he was busy
We re applied with clear distinction of travel date and visit (5 days) and with letters of meeting attendees
Dec 2010 - 2nd refusal:  1. the applicant can not speak English?   2. you did not make it clear you were translating websites in Seminar about Thailand? 

We contacted the officer to ratify the situation - they will not respond to any calls or emails?
We had to cancel a Seminar in Perth and notify all attendees - the seminar material was provided by the Aus and Thai Govt.,?
We asked the officer to ratify basic points so we can share her answers to all the Seminar attendees - she refused to reply? 
When consumers experience this behaviour from private enterprise they report it to the Govt for an enquiry .. this is the Govt.,  are they above the law?

Surely these people (visa officers) have "common sense", what business can survive with in staff that are inefficient, inflexible and lack integrity
if she was not able to do the job then we have no business
She has demonstrated critical elements of L.I.F.E. (leadership, Integrity, Flexibility, Efficiency)

The dept and/or their staff have been asked to demonstrate 
1. Collaboration - no comment
2. L.I.F.E. (Leadership, Integrity, Flexibility, Efficiency) - No comment
The solution seems to be "get on a boat from and claim asylum" or apply for the wrong visa  or cheat the system - logically that is wrong!  We follow ask for help and follow the rules and make a good example,  the officers can not follow their own guidelines and refuse to be accountable and refuse to discuss.
The consequence is:  Massive loss of time,  Massive loss of Business trade - Import  - Export Australia
Make it clear our 1st preference is collaboration we've shown this .. we had 3 x meetings in 18 mths with Senior officers in Bangkok (one meeting the officer refused to appear). 
We ask for collaboration, we collect feedback and complete the paperwork as guided.
They know our business yet they consciously decide to apply discretionary guidelines (innocuous) to refuse a visa? 
It contradicts the foremost provision in the same guidelines that they can be ignore the innocuous issues if the visit "gives benefit for Australia".  
When we ask ... do you consider our business gives benefit to Australia: answer is "no comment"


Lucky Phill

Status: Offline
Posts: 146

see some people can see a Benefit to Australia

Dr. Kenneth Yap, Assistant Professor of Marketing UWA Business School University of Western Australia was invited to inspect our Pilot Tour, he was fair but firm.
We received a detailed 5 page report of our functions, we have reviewed the process with the Tour guests (Collaboration - for efficiency), next week I visit Bangkok to host a Collaborative meeting with our Thai PA team to work through the finer points.

We asked the Dr. Yap to assess Arwee (our worker that the Visa office can not approve) - it's a remarkable difference. The assessment it a pdf document at the bottom of this newsflash - click here

Please note: we have had 3 meetings with Visa officers in 18 mths: almost everything said at a meeting is contradicted and then they refuse to discuss it (or change the goal posts) .. why is that their culture? 

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